A variety of thoughts from chad loftis

22.11.05

The Sin Gene

I have lately been wondering about the traditional wisdom which insists that man is born with a "sin nature" - an hereditary bent towards evil. Jesus, as the idea goes, avoided this by way of the virgin birth. Since everyone else is and has been born of man and woman, we cannot escape our inevitable fate.

Yesterday we watched on an unltrasound as our new little guy - developing in Erika's womb - did a somersault and squirmed around. Were these movements somehow sinful? Can sin really be a potential energy as well as an actual one? How can he/she really be a sinner - an avoider of God - before ever having the chance even to interact with another person?
Later on, when he she begins to scream because of pain or hunger should we see this as sinful? Or is it, rather, in some way the very essence of what sin is not? Perhaps maintaining such an attitude of complete "self-helplessness" is exactly what Christ meant when he spoke of having faith like a child. I think we are forgetting that sin is not really a disease or defect so much as it is a silence, an absence - stubborn dis-communication.

[At any rate, it is difficult to maintain that Christ was sinless because he did not inherit sin. It is tantamount to saying he was a sort of spiritual eunach who simply had not the capacity to be interested by sin. It is tantamount to saying that the temptation he endured was all for show.]

I can't think that my little one will be "full" of sin at least until he sees how every-man-for-himself the world has really become. Then perhaps he will begin to feel the loneliness of mortality that stabs us all.

15 Comments:

Blogger Lian said...

I think we have to be careful to say that sin is learned. Perhaps we are born with capabilities to sin or not. Perhaps we are born with a choice always before us...quickly we make our choices based on our propensities toward selfishness...Perhaps.
erko

9:21 am

 
Blogger elnellis said...

this is so interesting. i wonder if every parent to be goes through these questioning periods. phil and i also wondered about our babies "sin nature". i think we came to the conclusion that sylas (every man) isn't necessarily sinful but that he needs God. otherwise wouldn't he be a little god himself and worthy of our total and utter adoration.
i thought it would be an interesting study to keep a baby in a "box" and watch him grow just to see if the "man" in him would eventually surface.
it's hard to think that something so small and precious is capable of evil.
so erika would you say sin begins with selfishness? isn't that one of the first lessons learned - "no that is not for you, don't touch" :)
God help us as we guide the "little devils" to an understanding of grace...

11:08 am

 
Blogger Lian said...

Yeah, ruth, I think a need for God is very much a part of all this but I don't think sin comes from the need for God but rather the subtle decision "I don't need God." (or anyone else for that matter)

10:46 pm

 
Blogger elnellis said...

ah, that makes good sense

7:14 am

 
Blogger Lian said...

I think maybe I feel that we are all born with a sinful nature. Exactly what that is, I'm not sure. I realized in re-reading my last comment that this is what i was saying. SO I guess, in thinking about it a little more, I do think that selfishness, being pride, is the root of all evil. It is this that can be seen in little one year olds, and in grown adults. I don't really know, and obviously have not done any research so this could simply be a regurgitation of Bible college.

erk

8:02 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can love be the only package that comes out of our bodies. I think not. But then again yes?

11:13 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

our "sin nature" is the label god puts to our standing before him. our position in relationship to him. all have sinned and fall short of the glory only god has. so think not that this child is sinful,(bad) only sinful thereby separated from the holiness of a holy god...... then there is also something that parents tend to notice shortly after the words begin, the rebellious heart of such a young one, the word "NO" almost always coming out. and so yes, the child is born human, not divine, therefore, sinful not glorified, rebellious not righteous, a heart that will tend toward the darkness unless, by being sanctified by you his parent, and learning of god from the time he is born,(taught by erica, such a wonderful girl, and will be such a great mom,) that the light is winsome, wooing and warm. he will choose it.

12:56 pm

 
Blogger Lian said...

Good sense, Claire. i think you hit on something I was skirting around: the sinful nature is born not of an inner disease but of coming into a world broken off from God's presence.

6:52 pm

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I love the discussion - great points made by all.

What I always come back to when thinking of or discussing depravity (in the traditional Calvinist sense, that we are inherently image-bearers, but that every aspect of our being has been tarnished by our sin nature) is grace.

What I mean is that I, being a sinner am no better than any other sinner. Thus, I have no grounds to judge other sinners. I should, rather, love as God has loved

This perspective has been fundamental in my interaction with my homosexual brother. I believe that homosexuality is sinful (as, I think, does my brother), and my brother Patrick knows this. However, he also knows that I consider my hetrosexual lusts to be equally depraved as his homosexual lusts.

I think that an open, genuine humility about our own failings can be a bridge of love to others who may instinctively feel judged by Christians.

2:53 pm

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, I have finally decided to jump into the blog world...I couldn't stand the silence anymore(I'm sure that reveals something about me...)! I just have a few things to say. One is a very old yet acurate quote which I think sheds tremendous light on this subject of the sin nature. (I also happen to believe that it is the essence of what the Scripture teaches about this.) The quote - "We are not sinners because we sin, but rather we sin because we are sinners." No, we do not have a choice about our standing before God, we are born as sinners. Romans 5:12 "When" the first sinful action happens, is really irrelevent, because when and where and why doesn't change the fact the fact of who we are and what our standing is before God. Thus needing the redemption that Christ brings. (Besides that, my grandchild may just be the closest child to near perfection...Nah! That just reveals my own pride...) To comment on the "box" experiment. Actually God has already done that. All through the history of His people, He gave opportunity for men to do the right thing (the Law to be a schoolmaster, the choice of worship, etc.) just to show us that left to ourselves in the "box", the sinful nature will always come out. Remember Martin Luther's agony over his sinfulness, even when he tried to be an ascetic it didn't work, the sinful nature still reared it's ugly head. Well I've said enough. Not sure how to end this but maybe I've added to "blog" ...(what does that mean?). Maybe I'll venture into this world again sometime...?!
PT\Dad

11:51 am

 
Blogger Lian said...

Great Practical point, Pedro. I think remembering our own depravity is essential in any discussion about sin.
Dad, I'm not suggesting that any of us are without need of God by any means - or that anyone has led a sinless life. I'm really just challenging this genetic sin theory that implies Christ was somehow incapable of sin. Certainly, no human being except our Lord has managed to resist sin.But can that be blamed on some inherited quality or simply on each individual's quick decision to rely on self rather than God who has become somewhat invisible in the thick smog of our depravity.

10:27 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the bible says, in sin we are conceived...conceived in sin...no time to make quick decisions for self there...the race of adam is a doomed race. each one born into it also doomed. no escape. god, who was never conceived, is light, in him there is no darkness at all. no possibility of it. no shadow or turning (change of mind)or indecision-- a different form and substance than us-altogether. to compare christs experience on earth and ours may be impossible. for we know that altho he was god, voluntarily took the form of a human letting go of all the awesomeness of god, squeezing himself into this shape and form for the sole purpose of the experience of being human, and thereby being the perfect sacrifice necessary for our adoption as sons. perhaps if you compared yourself to say...a maggot. all the wonderfulness of you, creative, exceptional, bright and full of every feeling and yearning and emotion known to man. then, your dad says, the maggots need saving....ok? and so you, chad, volunteer to go down to the rotted meat, be born of a fly, live the life of a maggot, letting go of all your qualities, to die the worst of all maggot deaths, to save the maggots...and then to top the whole mess off, none of the maggots recognized your chadness, they just thought you were another poor maggot, trying to be upitty...
milkchunksmom

11:18 am

 
Blogger Lian said...

Claire, thanks for your wonderful and creative insight! You are such a wonderful person, and I'm glad to know you!

erika

9:22 am

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

erica-miss you guys, and i/we are so excited about your parenthood-ness...you both have so much to offer a child, and really, thats what its all about. nothing is more wonderful than to see you in anothers face, i have always known as a mom, that god used it every day to bring me into his heart, his parents heart of love, to show me how he feels about us. it was and is a lifelong lesson about gods love. we speak blessings on your new young family. mcm

1:01 pm

 
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The whole idea of the sin nature is misunderstood.
The sin nature is not sin. If it were non of us are accountable.
Man has three drives. The drive to be right, The drive to be happy and the drive to gratify appetite.
We need these to reconcile.
When they don't we try to force them. So i may have an appetite to take a cigarette and though congruent with my drive to be happy it is not so with my drive to be right. So i either acknowledge that it is wrong which we will all do to a degree. Or i will justify it.
A perfect man has all these appetites in balance. However due to my weakened flesh these drives sometimes work against each other.
When they do it is natural that in this weakened state i will try to gratify them contrary to what i intrinsicaly know is right (the law written on my heart). When i do it is sin. The drives themselves are not sin though.
So when we say a baby is born in sin we are not yet talking of intent but the physical condition that will place your child in the same position and struggle as everyone else.
Christ did not avoid this ame condition by being born of a virgin.
However when faced with the same conditions as we it is not natural that he would yield to these drives contrary to the law of right as he is God.
For this reason it is true that only God is good. Even the holy angels who have never sinned if given our weakened dysfunctional appetites would likely yield.
So when we say a child is born in sin or has a sin nature yes. But not in a way that means that they are intentionaly sinning at that age where they could not know.
I think the other spin off to this is that we often deny the homosexual who says he/she was born that way then tell everyone they are born in sin.
Summing up. The sin nature is itself is not sinful. Submitting to those appetites that it provides that are contrary to right is sin. So therefor i am still accountable.

5:33 pm

 

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